coffee

Brief question

buffyversetop5 is now open for posting, and all sorts of lists are showing up. Lots of Spike, lots of Spuffy. (Though I note there's a Xander/Riley recommendation, which wins on sheer whackiness.) Is that what most of Buffy fandom is, the reanimated middle-aged bleached-blond corpse and Buffy?

This is a thing I do not get, the appeal of Spike/Buffy. I like Season 2 evil Spike a lot, mind you. As enemies go, he's fun.
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I'm thinking I'll have to step up and write a list of five all-time-great Giles stories. How to choose, how to choose?
No the Buffy fandom is not jsut Spuffy, although that is a rather large, and vocal, portion of the fandom. *looks around* Shhh, don't tell anyone, but Spuffy is what drew me into fanfic. Then I discovered others which lead to B/G fic and I never looked back. I still read Spuffy occasionally, but only from writers I know and love. I really prefer Spike with Xander, or Willow, or Tara and occasionally Angel or Wesley. But I agree, Spike is best when he's the Scoobs enemy or chipped, trying to fit in. (And of course it helps that JM is quite yummy, for me at least.)
JM is indeed quite yummy. (This is the sort of brain I have: I saw your icon, and the first thing I thought was "that font is Template Gothic." Nerd! Nerd!)

It's more... I dunno. "A vampire in love with a Slayer. How poetic!" says Giles, in season 1. By season 5, the concept was kinda been there, done that, cleaned up after the carnage; can we have a new plot idea for Buffy, please?
Oh boy - don't get me started on Spike or Spuffy or we will be here all night!

Season 2 Spike is watchable...but it just keeps reminding me of how bloody awful the character became.

LOL - I personally have blamed most of the ills of the latter seasons on the fact that the writers/producers (i.e. Toxic Noxon) were utterly obsessed with Spike to the exclusion of damn near everyone else. I started to wonder why they didn't just rename the show?

I guess Spuffy is fun for those into necrophilia.

Trouble is Spuffy now constitutes a large section of Buffy fandom - and has done for quite a while. And a lot of the "groups" are very vociferous and antagonistic. There are a good number of them out there - all members of one certain Spuffy forum - who I have a hard time forgiving for making my life a living hell for a number of months. And all because I refused to affiliate my site with a Spuffy site. I got my email address posted on said forum with an instruction to "let me have it". And they did.

To be honest, that probably tainted the character in my eyes. And...sorry...this has turned into a sermon...
**hugs**

You took one for the Giles lovers in all of us. I can totally understand why it would turn you off to the idea of Spike. The same happened to me. Though James is still a cutie so I can't help but look.

Being a long time B/G'er, Spuffy folks seemed to be like the natural enemy. It took some fantastic folks in the BtVS fandom to broaden my mind and accept my twisted pairings, thus allowing me to tolerate Spuffy, in turn.

I do think the waning fandom of Buffy is allowing more tolerance overall. Us Buffy fans need to stick together.
LOL - I can't. I seriously cannot. You know sometimes it's almost like a raw wound and when somebody starts on about the wonders of Spike or Spuffy, I don't exactly see red...but I DO instantly react and attack with no thought whatsoever. Not sure how else to explain it!!

I do steer clear of fics that have Spike as a main character - and I'm sure I've missed some brilliantly written fics as a result. I guess we all have a little section of "intolerance"...lol and as far as Buffy goes, that's mine!
I suspect you're seeing hate where none really exists. (Though meegat's experience doesn't sound like it was very pleasant.) In a sense the Spuffy thing represents a phase of the Buffy series that many people found disappointing. Season 6 was, after "Tabula Rasa", not very fun. Grinding misery for all involved, and what's more, a retread of a vampire-loves-Slayer plot idea that the series had already explored in seasons 2 & 3. Been there, done that, Buffy ought to have learned her lesson the first time.

My own take on it was that it was "too much Spikey chocolate sauce on not enough Scooby ice cream." And indeedy, JM is chocolate sauce. (And ASH is whipped cream, and SMG the maraschino cherry, and oh dear, this metaphor has come aliiiiiiiiiiive!) But too much chocolate sauce isn't a good thing, and the sight of two pretty people together does not make up for the lack of an interesting storyline.

So when I see Spike/Buffy, what I see is the decline of a television show that was fantastic indeed at its height. And the reminder depresses me.

But I also feel that everybody should have fun in fandom, and pursue what they like in it. And if Spike/Buffy does it for you, that's great. Everybody be happy! We won't be running out of electronics for the fanfic any time soon!
Is appearing at su_herald some kind of big deal? I had one of my overnight stories appear there; had no idea it meant anything. And if so, why couldn't they have picked a good story?

giles_watchers implies no judgement of quality. Sometimes we record some pretty crappy stuff. I take my fic recs seriously, however. I have fun with those, sometimes, with the thematic ones in particular.
Giles should be represented in some form or fashion though I don't think I could come up with any lists.
I like Spike, up through mid season 6, for the same reason I like Spock, or Data, or Odo in the Star Trek franchise. He's an outsider, struggling with a very different role in the world after a century or so of being a Big Bad and loving it. The dualities to the character are cool. As are the ways the character illuminates issues we often take for granted, as he lets us see them through his unique viewpoint and confusion.

Buffy pairing up with him-- not so much. I love the dynamic with Dawn as a kind of little sister, and how Buffy's death kindles some kind of nobility in Spike, to protect people she cared about. But I agree that the writers left way too many holes in the scaffolding there, and spent way too much time on Sex to explore what were some really cool ideas, with an actor who could emotionally handle the possibilities so much better than DB could. Though he grew into Angel on his own show, the whole idea of him was very lame in the early eps.

And unfortunately, the fic I've seen is so much more "let's find some New excuse to get Spike in bed with (insert your sock puppet here)." A good bit of all fanfic does this, but it's so much more in canon to do it with Spike, because that's what the show itself did.

I'll have to look up some of my favorite fics from my hiding-from-outrageous-fortune days. A lovely Giles Jenny was my first intro to the genre: Et in Arcadia, Ego, I believe. I'll have to find it.

Hob,
who thinks this kind of sharing of stories is a great way to revitalize a closed fandom....
Yeah, that's the problem with it: it's not a new storyline for Buffy. That territory has been explored in the series already. NEW, please. New story ideas, please.
I think a ton of people initially go in for Spike/Buffy - I certainly didn't. I have, however, read some spuffy that was actually pretty damn good, but that's because the woman who writes them is a professional romance writer - and i think it appeals to that part of the audience that reads that kind of thing (and i admit i have occasionally been part of that audience).

Now Giles/Spike, OTOH, is one of my fav pairings and it doesn't get written enough (or at least, there aren't many good lengthy pieces about 'em).

I liked Spike's character when he first showed, but then ended up really hating him in the latter half of season 6 --> season 7. And I made the mistake of going with friends to see JM in concert and that really sealed the deal. But there are some writers who have redeemed him for me because I do kind of adore the devil may care attitude, and the capability for malice that's combined with a kind of genuine sweetness. But I like him away from Buffy. I also don't really read Buffy/Angel either though....
OH *hell* yeah. And, also, if you've never read it before, Uberaeryn's "This One Does" (here)
is also totally worth it.

you know that i've totally made a bunch, right? here and here
YAY! I'm so glad you like! (although I haven't met anyone who's read it who hasn't). I love uberaeryn's stuff - she actually writes some really funny silly things. And B/G! Sadly, not in the buffyverse anymore, but I still love her archives.